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, about a collective board dropping by the cia. >> reporter: that's right. cnn learned not only the fsb, the russian equivalent -- the successor to the kgb, not only did the russian fsb reach out to the fbi in 2011 and ask them to keep an eye on tamerlan tsarnaev and look into who he was, and whether he was an extremist, but the cia also heard from the fsb. and there are also all of these questions now about different watch lists that tamerlan tsarnaev was put on. and how come the system pinged for the department of homeland security when he went over to russia to chechnya. but it didn't ping when he came back. a lot of questions from congress for the intelligence agencies. you know, piers, taxpayers pay hundreds of billions of dollars for a very expensive and thorough national security apparatus in this country. but i think we're seeing that still has a lot of kinks that need to be worked out. piers. >> right, and we've got some clips, i think, of john kerry, joe biden and jay carney. talk me through them. because a lot of conflicting messages being sent by some of the top people in th
being a bad actor. everyone is acting as if the fsb asked us to investigate. this is putin's country, not the gold standard for what we're concerned about, is it? >> absolutely not. going back to what the russians, fsb were interested in, was do we have a problem here, is this guy going to -- is he a chechen separatist. i guarantee the fsb is sitting on information about him, including what -- you think the fsb wasn't paying attention to him while he was in dagestan? they have information about him and they're not sharing it with us. they should be the ones getting kicked. >> don't ask questions i can't understand. you know what this reminds me of, though? it reminds me if president obama got hemorrhoids, we would have 340 million amateur proctologists. do you know what i mean? >> good point. >> i'd be first in line. >> when something like a terror act, we legitimately as americans all read and read and we all become the expert and you have people, for example, i don't mean questioning the fbi and cia, i'm talking about idiots that questioned the bombing. like that guy you had on thu
don't know the substance of the conversation. it's been taking place in the fsb, the internal security headquarters here in the city. a place so -- under wraps, if you will, you're not allowed to film it. we haven't heard detail of what's going on inside, only that report coming from the state news agency. that, the family, both parents will -- it's 4:00 a.m. in the morning here now, will in a matter of hours be leaving to go to the united states to help with the investigation, anderson. >> and nick paton walsh, tamerlan posted videos of this militant, on his youtube channel. do we know of any connection between the two, any meetings, anything? >> reporter: we don't know if the two men have actually met. we know there is a substantial amount of potential overlap between them. abu dujan as a reasonably well-known figure head, running a group of rebels and militants who did training and even learned how to make explosives in the woods throughout all of last year, the same year, the first six months of which we also know that tamerlan tsarnaev was, in fact there as well. >> you talked to
know. that the fbi got this report from the russian fsb. back in 2011. suggesting that he was a follower of radical islam, they investigated. they did not find any evidence to back it up. no evidence of violent activity. but he does get placed into an fbi database. and does get put on a watch list. he gets entered into a watch list. again, the russian fsb contacts the c.i.a. later that year. offers the same evidence the c.i.a. puts him on a watch list. in january 2012 as we reported, as we reported yesterday, when tamerlan tsarnaev goes, goes to the airport to make his reservations, fly out of the country, go to russia. there is an email automatic email alert sent to the joint terrorism task force in boston, about his travels. now, that is one of the threads of evidence here that people are looking at. because there was some alert. so the terrorism task force knew he was leaving the country. it's not clear they had grounds to do anything further. six months later he comes back. again there's notification, but the question that, the issue that fbi people are saying is -- wh
. there has been speculation that t came from the russian fsb, but the fbi has never said specifically that it came from the fsb. a decision is made, should we launch an investigation? that decision was clearly affirmative, yes we should, but what kind? the fbi is governed by a series of different kinds of nvestigations. following watergate about a zillion years ago, the fbi was uncovered by a series of guidelines that determine what the fbi can do in the various stages of investigation. those guidelines were greatly reduced or lessened, the cumbersome as of it was made easier:9/11. there are three different types f investigation. the fact that can determine how much reasonable suspicion of a threat is attached to the placement in each of these three categories, and there are tools available in each category that are not available in the others. there is also, because of the fact that this may have come from a law-enforcement agency or law-enforcement data, that the fbi may have opened a foreign police cooperation case, which follows the same guidelines of what can and cannot be done.
the fbi was informed by the russian fsb, the successor organization to the kgb, that they were concerned about the older brother. the fbi says they looked into his communications, they interviewed him, they didn't find there to be anything that would pose a threat to public safety, and then the older brother went to russia, we presume, to chechnya, came back. should the fbi re-interviewed him after he came back? >> they took the matter seriously when it first came up, and obviously there was a very serious concern that we can see in retrospect. and i would be particularly concerned about someone who visited an area like chechnya, if that's in fact what happened, especially in the light of the fact that chechnyan individuals have been involved in the war on terror pretty regularly against the united states and its operations overseas. >> talk about the precedence that might be relevant in this case against dzhokhar tsarnaev. you obviously were attorney general for a number of them. which do you see as being relevant and why? >> there doesn't seem to be any precedent which would prohibit t
from the russian fsb the rough equivalent of fbi. they checked data bases. typically what happens is you go back to the service to look at what additional information is that is key. >> what is interesting is mike rogers in that clip that we saw basically says what robert just said is they went back to the other agency and they shut us down. wait a minute. if we had that information, i know you get thousands of terrorist tips all of the time, but when a foreign intelligence service contacts us and says we believe this guy is radicalized he's in this country you are giving him political asylum it's a little different than just a tip that comes in. >> it is a little bit different. we have to look at the circumstances of what exactly did happen. the foreign intelligence service, i don't know that it was from russia. i heard from all of the news media it was russia and the fsb. i assume that is logical and probably did happen. gave information to the fbi in early 2011 indicating tamerlan tsarnaev was really into it and interested in coming to their country presumably their host countr
imagine a situation, the fbi, appealing for further details from the fsb, the fsb, former frankly counterparts when they were the kgb in the cold war, being suspicious. in a decades of being here, talking about the north caucasus of security services here, a lingering conspiracy theory, a fear that the u.s. has been involved in what they refer to as russia's soft underbelly fermenting violence in that area, denied by u.s. officials but fermenting. a sense of disinterrupt. of course they want to cooperate when they can. if you look back and see how that that fbi, there may have been blockages because of cultural ways of behaving in the organizations that used to be firm cold war adversaradversari >> we'll have much more on the violence in russia straight ahead. ♪if you set your phone to vibrate ♪ ♪ then it might alert your button flies all the ♪ ♪ girls and the guys wanna keep that credit score ♪ ♪ high like a private jet free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ don't forget! narrator: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com at od, whatever business you're in, t
and the meetings. >> reporter: it began yesterday. the fbi and russian security service fsb involved in this questioning of the parents. i'm sure they're trying to piece together what exactly happened in those six months and perhaps any other visits that may have occurred here by tamerlan tsarnaev. it is apparently clear at this point the russians on two occasions asked american officials for assistance or further information about tamerlan tsarnaev and the americans consider that request to be a bit too vague. there is clearly going to be more of a diplomatic spat emerging out of this but i think, clearly, the thrust of the fbi investigation is going to be trying to find out exactly from the fsb perhaps the russian security services how much more they knew about tamerlan tsarnaev and perhaps any links he may have had to militants here in dagestan, wolf. >> all right. nick, stand by for a moment. i want to drill a little deeper right now in the possible influence or training by militants in dagestan. mick is standing by but i want to bring in our national security analyst peter berge
or more specifically the russian fsb, the successor to the kgb, that that russian intelligence agency asked the fbi to check him out in 2011 warning that he was, quote, a follower of radical islam. and, quote, a strong believer and may have been planning to leave the u.s. to join an underground group in europe. the fbi even interviewed him in 2011, but say they found no related evidence. the fbi did not follow up after tamerlan tsarnaev returned from chechnya in 2012. it seems pretty evident that he was not watched closely enough. i want to bring in julia kayyem. and julia, the fbi, they might be the here rows of this operation right now, but they are going to have a lot of questions to answer about this. >> i think they will be fully prepared to do so. as you said, they are the heros in terms of how they captured them. but looking back is important for two reasons and the institution itself, the white house will look back and say what did we miss, how did we miss it, did we not take the russians seriously enough. or were there -- what we don't know is how many people were interviewed
the fsb, that's the investigative arms in russia, asked the fbi to talk to tsarnaev. they were concerned, the fsb, because they felt he had been radicalized. and the fbi also says that somehow they believed he had changed in the last year and that he was going back to have some type of contact with radical islamist group. so the fbi talks with tsarnaev, they find nothing as they put it derogatory. and then in 2012 tamerlan tsarnaev goes back to russia. he goes back to visit his family in dagestan. he spends six months. and that, john, is where it's unclear precisely what happened at that point. back in the united states he creates a youtube channel. and on that channel he includes videos from some radical preachers. now, his uncle who was here in the united states in maryland ruslan tsarni, claims that his nephew was brainwashed. >> i said this person just took his brain, brainwashed him completely. tamerlan is off now. there's no obedience even to respect his own father. >> and the person he's talking about although not named he says is an amenian converted to islam. a lot of questions
at that time. now, again, i would like to know, what was the information that the fsb had on him that led them to be concerned? was it just simply that they saw that this was a chechen in the united states? there aren't that many of them. about 50 or so. who was visiting radical islamic websites more often. but then, you know, what -- so then this guy goes to dagestan in january of last year and spends six or seven months. what do we, what do the russian intelligence services know about what he was doing there? to what extent was the fsb following up on this guy? and when he returned to the united states, similarly, you know, what was the fbi doing? was he still someone that they thought there should be some concern about? those are big questions. >> okay. andrew kuchins, thanks for helping us with that. >>> as you saw, we were on the air when this whole thing happened. up next, toure's personal take on what it's like to cover these stories as they break. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased. some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling
the russian fsb? did they continue to monitor him? and then finally once the marathon bombing took place, did they go back right away to their databases and see what they had in their own files on radical extremists or possible radical extremists in the possible area and was there any information on tamerlan, did they notice the information they already had in their own files about tamerlan tsarnaev. >> and with regard it to the motive, michael, is there believed to be a chechen component there or the fact that chechen rebels and the defensemen on 0 stragss that have been more focused to moscow. it hasn't been faced to the west when they've been demonstrating. >> reporter: right. well, first of all, something cle clearly sparked the russians -- russian intelligence to send this notice to the fbi about tsarnaev. you know, a reasonable conclusion would be that it had some -- because they had some information connecting him to chechen or radical extremists in central asia. that's all -- there are a number of radical extremist groups in that region, and the suspicious would be that he had some co
no comment from the russian security service, the fsb. is it not a very leaky organization when it chooses to be so and at the moment is it maintaining a very strict silence on what it knew about tamerlan tsarnaev and why it was worried about him and why it asked the fbi to investigate him in 2011. we know from the fbi they were told by russian officials they believed this man had become a radical follower of islam and he had -- those views had changed dramatically since 2010 as he was planning to visit russia. but we don't know why that is. but that rather vague information supports what we're hearing from tamerlan tsarnaev's own family in dagestan itself where they say, by the time he arrived in dagestan to visit them in early 2012, after the russians asked the fbi to investigate they say at that point they were surprised by how religious, how devout, how conservative he had become how seriously he took islam. far more seriously than the rest of the family. from their own words they say this is something he taught himself while he was still in the united states. >> it isn't ancient histo
. they have plenty of underground and undercover -- they have guys on the ski slopes from the fsb, which is the old kgb, going down with the skiers. >> right. as putin i think has a little clave to say i told you so because he accused the west of romanticizing the chechen fighters. the chechen fighters are pretty brutal, too. i don't think what happened in boston had anything to do with chechen -- >> how big is the number of chechen radical islamists such as we've seen? how big is that number? >> i don't know what the numbers are, but it's the not chechen so much as dagestan. >> is these were not lone wolves by any means? >> we don't know. i mean, somehow or other they got radicalized. we don't know exactly how it happened. there are all sorts of different versions of it. the one thing that i think is absolutely clear, and this is incomprehensible to those of us who live in new york city, that the police in boston did not inform the new york city police. >> that is known as mobster central. there were mobsters there. we know that. it's an embarrassment to the ussr. we know that sochi i
they had, which is not a great surprise. when you're the fbi dealing with the russian fsb, there's more comfort on the cyber issues and terrorist issues. it's more comfortable but not very comfortable. >> does it say investigators should have done more? >> i don't think so. i think the politicians in this story are doing what they do best, which is they've arrived at the field of battle a little bit late and bayonetted the wounded. in 2011, that somehow there's a magic formula where there will never be a terrorist attack here because someone's in your file with a 90-day assessment that was done at the request of a foreign government. so this is one of those cases where we're looking for the radicalizer, the bomb maker, and as the case unfolds, and i can always say this can change. we're coming into our third weekend of this. they've got a long way to go. so far it looks like these were the actions of tamerlan tsarnaev maybe egged on by his mother, but there doesn't seem to be a giant organization behind it. >> you point out the role of the mother, and we heard fro
there wasn't much there, they he work with the fsb. >> used to be called the kgb. >> the rough equivalent of the fbi for russia. >> but we do admit one thing. we a game changer now. we to go after every bit of this information and track it down and be on top. the patriot law we got to start looking at people's computers, the internet. we got to start changing. >> geraldo: at least when you question a guy you put him on a list and when comes back from russia after is six months say hey, where have you been, man? we'll be right back. ♪ there is no mass-produced there is no mass-produced human. every signature is unique and every fingerprint unrepeatable. and there is one store that recognizes it: the sleep number store. the only place in the world you'll find the extraordinarily comfortable sleep number bed: the only bed with dual-air technology that allows you to adjust to the support your body needs. each of your bodies. it's part of the sleep number collection-innovations that individualize the way you sleep. from the perfect pillow ... to temperature-balancing bedding. and it's the on
and a thoroug job in the case. the key here is what information came from the russian fsb the rough equivalent of fbi. they che data bases. typically what happens is you g back to the service to look at whatdditional information is that is key. >> what is interesting is mike rogers in that clip that we saw basically says what robert just said is they went back to the other agency and they shut us down. wait a minute. if we had that information, i know you get thousands of terrorist tips all of the time, but when a foreign intelligence service contacts us and says we believe this guy is radicalized he's in this country you are giving him political asylum it's a little different than just a tithp comes in. >> it is a little bit different. we have to look at the circumstances of what exactly did happen. the foreign intelligence service, i don't know that it was from russia. i heard from all of the news media it was russia and the fsb. i assume that is logical and probably did happen. gave information to the fbi in early 2011 indicating tamerlan tsarnaev was really into it and interested in comin
intelligence you don't ignore. the fsb, fcr, the two main russian intelligence agencies don't like the united states, don't provide technical intelligence, and when they do, you better listen. >> u.s. officials say when the fbi and cia ended their separate investigations, they concluded the older brother posed no threat. russia refused requests for more information. so the big question, did the intelligence community have the information that could have prevented these bombings? former fbi assistant director and law enforcement analyst tom fuentes joins us from washington. simply put, was the ball dropped? >> i don't think so. no evidence to say that it has been dropped at this point. the information that first came to the fbi was investigated and the investigated it very diligently, as near as we can tell, up to and including interviews with tamerlan himself, checking his electronic communications, who he was in touch with. what friends and neighbors thought of him and all of that. the -- i should say the lead that comes in later to the cia, and i don't know if they are identical, but i ran
they notified the cia? >> yes. and to be clear, they really weren't two separate instances. the fsb for years was a hostile intelligence service to the fbi, and our cia. they gave limited notification. the fbi received that information. and from what they received, conducted a pretty thorough review of that case to see if there was any derogatory information of which they could do more with. could they go up on his phones, get a fisa, get a court order, interception of his phones. none of that happened. no derogatory information. at the same time the cia received exactly the same information. in exactly the same form. it was more of a procedural thing than it was that they were so concerned that they notified two different places on two different dates. i don't believe that happened. i believe it was more of a process issue with the fsb. now the fbi writes back and says, hey, we need a little help here. we didn't really find anything. can we have some clarification. no response. they asked again. no response. so that was the problem that we ran into. so they cooperated a little. they didn't c
of conversations between cia and the kgb follow and between fbi and fsb, federal security service in russia. the basic question to the russian security services is what did you know, when did you know it, was there anything worthwhile telling us after that initial engagement in 2011 when they first brought his name to our attention. we'll find out. >> nbc news terrorism analyst, great to have you on. >>> joining me now is the congressman with the house homeland security committee. it's good to have you here. i want to talk about whether tsarnaev is going to be charged today. right now as we all understand it he hasn't been read his miranda rights to keep him in a gray area right now whether or not he would be considered an enemy combatant or information that he would be allowing to investigators may not be used against him if he were try to be tried as an american civilian. as i talked there with roger about the fact that congressman peter king over the weekend said the homeland is the battlefield and that times have really changed, what are your thoughts about what the congressman has said
. >> that is part of the relationship, the trouble between the fbi and the fsb, the security operations in russia. both sides really want to protect their sources and methods, and there's another human rights issue here, where the u.s. doesn't want to necessarily turn over to the russians something that might involve a political dissident, for instance. >> well, it's certainly true we have to be very careful of any information we would give to the russians that would allow them to increase harassment of civil rights activists, dissidents, what have you, and obviously they have much lower standards when it comes to these issues than we do. i don't think human rights came into the question here involving the ascertain yes, at least there's no indication to that effect. it would not be unusual to go back to the russians and ask for more. it would also not be unusual to have the line go dead at that point. >> one question that came up here today when we were trying to sort through this puzzle that was what in tamerlan tsarnaev's mind, why would the russians ask for information if he had not been in c
. that took place at the fsb. it is a building you're not allowed to film. we spent a couple of hours outside of there. security was keeping an eye on us. all indications were they were inside the biuilding they were talking. a lawyer said they were cooperating and they did meet last night. we don't know the details of what's been said, but it does seem there is cooperation between russian officials and the fbi. at some level the parents are cooperating by showing up and going to these meetings anderson. >> does the mother plan to come back here? she's got one dead. she has another son in a hospital. does she have any intention of coming back here and at least seeing him? >> reporter: we've heard reports of her saying he wants to come back. you've got to believe in this situation right now both parents want to be there when their son is buried. you can imagine this conversation with the fbi is a two-way conversation. the parents are going the want to know what's going to happen to their son, when can they go back? the intent does seem to be there. do they want to come back in u.s. jurisdictio
obviously is that the cia was notified by the russian fsb, the russian security services, after the russians went to the fbi, the fbi reported back to the russians that they didn't find anything, and then the russians basically took the file to the cia and said, hey, we want you to have a look which suggests that the russians were frustrated that they hadn't found anything. now the fbi will say, look, we went back to the russians, we asked them for more information and they didn't provide it, but it's clear now that the russians were trying to provide information and that our government didn't follow up on it or at least follow up on it as much as they might have. the second, i think, major development today is that we are seeing the consensus shifting on whether there might have been foreign involvement or jihadi training for tamerlan tsarnaev. others have reported there were no foreign ties. officials had basically ruled those out. we were getting that via leaks from the fbi and from others and there seems to be a broad reconsideration of that fact. i think it was reflected in what you hea
they were was inquiries. what comes into the fbi in march of 2011 from the russian fsb is request for foreign police cooperation. they're like this guy is on u.s. soil, we think he may have had ties to extremist, he's changed drastically in the last year, can you please investigate him and report back to us. their theory is as a potential chechnyan radical, he could be a threat to russia. they want to see what he's doing on u.s. soil. they do a fullback ground, data bases, wiretaps, does he surface in another case and when nothing comes up, they interviewed him, they interview his parents, they write that up, they send it to the russians with an important caveat at the end which is we didn't find any information about links to terrorism, what else do you have. if you have more, send it. they never hear back from the russians. what the russians do is in september, about september 28th of 2011, they send the same request to the cia with no further information either. cia runs its traps, say we don't find anything, and then in october, when they close it out, just as a precaution, th
an awful lot. and, now, this one came apparently from the fsb, from the russian service. fareed, as you know, not all of them are terrorists and not many of them are dangerous to the united states. so, you've got that factor. and then the travel to dagestan probably wasn't the alerting thing to us. that it would have been had he gone where threats to the united states have been generated. so, we'll probably change our check lists and probably add a few questions to the fbi interviews. but, look, we'll let the facts take us where they will. but i'm reluctant to criticize the bureau or anyone else on this yet. >> when you look at the boston, what they were able to do, do you worry that with a little more skill, with a little more planning it could have been much worse? >> yes. no, i do. i mean, i'm not going to sit here and give tips to future terrorist bombers how they could have acted differently. but if they were better in their trade craft, this could have been a lot worse. >> do you think in order to do something big, you need to be able to track the money, in other words, what makes
know about that? >> well, look, here's what we know. that in 2011, the russian fsb, their intelligence service reported to the fbi that it had -- wanted the fbi to investigate tamerlan tsarnaev, the older brother, for -- as a follower of radical islam. and the fbi interviewed tsarnaev, contacted an inquiry, conducted by the joint terrorism task force in boston, talked to family members, and concluded that there was no evidence of criminal activity, no evidence of any ties to identifiable terrorist groups, and there the matter sort of lay. and then we know in january of 2012, tsarnaev goes to russia for six months. he visits chechnya, where his family was originally from. he visits other areas in value asia where we know there's extremist activity. what exactly he did there, we don't know. the fbi and sources so far in the u.s. government have been a bit -- say they didn't get a lot of detail from the russian fsb about what it is that the russians thought was suspicious about tsarnaev. so that's clearly a big question here. and then also, a very big question is what -- who did he meet w
that the fsb gave to the fbi, and to the cia about the tsarnaevs. he said the russian special services, to my great regret, were not able to provide our american colleagues with information that would have operative significance. interesting comment by mr. putin. you know, wolf, one of the complicating factors here is that the west for years has accused russia of carrying out that war against the chechen terrorists with a lot of brutality, and violating human rights. so although right now the fbi and the fsb cooperate on many levels about a lot of different things, some officials here say that might have colored a bit how they approached that information that did come from the fsb. >> that's a good point indeed. jill, thanks very much. >>> still ahead, a bombing survivor talks about her frantic escape from the scene and the horrors she faced when she arrived at the hospital. >>> what if the bombing suspects had been able to get to times square in new york. we'll ask new york city polic about the cameras they've set up across the city. and some superheroes need complete and balanced meals with
approached once by the fsb, the russian federal security service, in 2011. this was before tamerlan actually went back to russia for about six months last year, 2012. the fsb have said here, they have alleged that they actually reached out again to the fbi or to the u.s. authorities in 2012 in the fall after he returned, after tamerlan returned to the u.s. they have said that they were concerned that he had been meeting with a suspected militant here in dagestan. but the fbi maintains they have only been contacted once. >> okay. so tsarnaev's mother, the woman we were just listening to there from chechnya, she's placed on this list. it does not mean she's a suspected terrorist, correct? i mean, she's just a person of interest or there's something that has alerted u.s. authorities to say take a closer look? >> reporter: well, yes, that's correct, alex. it means that she was put on a watch list because her son, his name had been flagged. there was no evidence to suggest that she was actually involved in any sort of terrorist activity. now, just to be clear, there were two instances in which he
operations. so i think they need to get that process back to the fsb, back to the g-20, and really have a discussion about the global level of the playing field for regulation, because we're all global banks now. and you cannot avoid a financial crisis of dimension of the last crisis, if you allow pockets for weakness, because regulation doesn't apply to all the constituencies. so i think, basically pushing back on local regulation and making large banks global environment similar is going to be the key issue. >> should we expect a dividend move from you guys next year? >> weal, we've already said we will move to a dividend policy that is more focused on shareholder's interest in the company once we are at 13%. we expect 13% as a capital ratio some time in 2014 and we expect that our dividend policy and our policy for shareholders is shareholders will get a return at least 50% of our operating profits will go to shareholders. so very clearly a commitment to an increased and better dividend policy once we're done with the capital raising. >> that's maria talking with axel vaber. we're in
, with fsb, their version of fbi, sfr, their version of the cia, to try and develop a picture and understanding. who he met with, who he talked to, what type of activities. it is possible that his radicalization happened here inside the united states. that this was all self-contained. just as it's possible that who he met with overseas during that six-month period triggered and led to the events that ultimately culminated in the attacks on monday in boston. >> and that is the case, isn't it? that in the past some of these acts of terrorism perpetrated by individuals living here have actually been trained in places like pakistan and afghanistan for a short period of time and then come here to expedite their evil as it were on the land of america. >> the most recent example, fisal s hirhisad, the times squ bomber. he was trained by the pakistani ca taliban, came back to the united states and attempted his attack which thankfully failed. we don't know if the brothers were involved in a chechen separatist movement. we have no reason to conclude that just yet. that's what the inves
that was given from the fsb to the fbi. they said he was being a radical follower of islam. that's first amendment protected activity. you cannot open an investigation just because somebody is become -- >> so they did what they could under the circumstances? >> exactly. there's a limited number of techniques they can do for a limited number of time. they can check public records. they can check with informants, they can get cell phone subscriber records, not details, subscriber records only. the fbi, as i understand it, did everything legally that they were allowed to do, including interview them, and then after that, all those techniques were done, they had no basis of, you know, to continue the investigation. it was closed. >> let me now ask you about the surviving brother. they are using the public safety exception. he's not getting the "you have the right to remain silent," et cetera. >> initially, no. >> what is the danger? is there a clear and present danger that there are other explosive devices out there? >> that's what they are going to look at first. the public safety exception
investigation, even side by side with the fsb. their fbi counterpart. the request will go into the russians, we'll ask again for additional information, and probably will get some additional information, whatever they have. based on the worldwide interest in this story now. but they will be doing the investigation, and i'm almost positive, i would be shocked if the fbi is allowed to actually to even go there and be present with them when they follow up and do the additional work they would do in that region. >> so the level of cooperation is limited. yet they did tell the fbi about this 26-year-old now deceased suspect, and the fbi began an investigation of its own. why would the russians, if their cooperation with the u.s. is so limited, why would they initially tip off the u.s. about this guy? >> well, they send a lot of requests, as do many countries in the world to the fbi to say we're suspicious of a given individual, here's what we have, please look into it. they did look into it, from our understanding. we have to look into it, how much nuance was in the quest, how much detail was in it
is now in dagestan and she said that the fsb, the russian federal security services, a successor to the kgb, is sending them to moscow tomorrow to meet with them. this would be the second time the president has met with the agency. the first time the parents were questioned friday night is the information. as it stands right now, the father, anzor tsarnaev will travel to the united states, according to at least what he has told our report he there on wednesday. the white house also announced just over the hour ago, that the president will be attending a memorial service in texas thursday for the 14 people killed in last week's massive explosion at a fertilizer plant. right now, federal and state investigators are back on that scene of the disaster in the town of west, texas. they're still trying to determine the cause of the fire that triggered the explosion itself. nbc's gabe gutierrez joins us live from west, texas. the chilling 911 calls absolutely send chills through anyone who can hear them but this investigation is still going on. >> reporter: that's right, attem tamron. to
-- what changed? who radicalized them? we know that when that russian fsb request to the fbi comes, it says, interestingly, that tamerlan tsarnaev has become a follower of radical islam and that he has changed drastically. that suggests they had some information from -- from somebody close to him or somebody who knew him who had seen some transformation. you put that together with what the uncle has told nbc news for the last few days. >> right. >> reporter: that there was a mysterious character named misha of armenian descent who played a role in this, who had undue influence over tamerlan. and then, of course, after that russian request, he goes over to russia, tamerlan does, and spends six months there. goes to dagestan, goes to chechnya. both hotbeds of islamic radicalism. who did he meet with there? who did he talk to there? and did that play a role? >> so we don't have answers to any of these questions. we don't even know yet the identity of this mysterious misha right thousand. but those are all questions that the fbi is asking right now as we are in the media. >> of course.
for accomplices and they're certainly looking for accomplices in russia. you know, we have to look at the fsb, who first notified the fbi about them. it's typical for the fbi, you know, to get a note from the russians but never getting a follow-up, that doesn't mean the russians aren't concerned. it's just their habit. they have been doing this way back to the '90s. we also have to consider the possibility the russians know a lot more, for instance, a lot of people are speculating whether they approach tamerlan when he was in dagestan and had some sort of connection with him, told the russians don't worry about it, same thing he told the fbi, fooled them. so it's just the mystery seems to deepen rather than to get clearer. >> is there a common path toward radicalization that we have seen in other people who have attempted terror attacks in the united states or around the world? is there a sort of commonality in experience or events that lead them down this path? >> there's no one fixed formula. what we can say is there are certain factors which are very easy for us to identify. i say factors, not
and americans? >> it's clear they're both being interrogated at length by both the fbi and fsb. she wouldn't speak much about that investigation but asked about this radical family friend called misha who seems to have helped her and her older son devout islam. in terms of russian-american cooperation there's quite a lot of noise yesterday on the hill suggesting maybe the russians hadn't been as forthcoming as they could be about persons of interest. and point out it's not really fashionable to defend -- russians do appear on three occasions to have made quite direct warnings to the united states about tamerlan and according to reports last night about the mother as well. i think we'll see a diplomatic spat as both try to not accept blame for dropping the ball, but the russians come forward with an amount of it does provide fuel to american claims they could have provided earlier. anderson. >> yeah, nick paton walsh in russia, appreciate it. as we told you at the top of the hour dzhokhar tsarnaev is now in prison. we'll tell you new details about what the prison is equipped to do to treat
got help back from the fsb in russia as to what they were looking at, once they couldn't find here any real links to terrorists. how do we work at getting better cooperation here? >> on the surface, you have seen president putin and the kremlin indicate a couple of times this week they want close cooperation with the united states on counterterrorism. so i think the russians are going to be easy, maybe even to embrace this counterterrorism to position both the united states and russia as victims of islamic terrorism and therefore, we should be partners. we have worked with the russians back to the 1990s and including after 9/11. on a lot of terrorism issues. they've sometimes been good partners, sometimes not so good. on this one the russians can be helpful in trying to let us know what tamerlan tsarnaev did on those repeated trips to chechnya in 2012 and whether or not he had ties to terrorist groups in dagestan. that's where they can be helpful. there is a double-edged sword here, andrea. the russians have been brutal in putting down the two chechen wars of the 1990s and that's very
helpful but didn't provide it. >> why didn't they provide it? >> the fsb is a hostile service to the fbi and cia. there's a cultural problem there between where the russians are and our folks. they sent a letter, didn't have a lot of information, and then three extra times after the investigation was closed, they said, do you have any more? they wouldn't do it. i believe they have more information and had information. >> one of things they had provided were these wiretaps of the brothers' mother, she seems to have been a key figure at least in encouraging the older brother in his more fervent worship. >> the fbi listening to those tapes, thought at the time, at least, it had more to do with internal russian problems. not the united states of america. this is one of the most broad investigations that we have seen. all of our law enforcement, intelligence community, doing a great job investigating and questioning all of the associations. awe lack awlawi dead. still have tapes. and then there's personal issues that the tamerlan may have had, that -- >> when you say you're closer, to pick on
.b.i. is actually on the ground with the f.s.b., which is actually pretty unusual to see them work together, but they're backtracking through that trip. we haven't heard anything at this point that they have found a time where there was training, but this is peeling back layers. that could change, but right now there's no indication of that. >> the reason why they're suspicious, bomb. these bombs were somewhat sophisticate. if they used remote triggers-- which seems to be the consensus-- it's hard to imagine two guys under the radar could buy all this stuff, build these bombs, carry off the attack and have it all work perfectly? where did they practice? and that begs the question did anybody help them train. >> schieffer: what about the stories coming out of russia now that it turnlz out russia may have been wiretapping the bomber's mother. >> in 2011, yes, the prugzs now say-- they've now told the u.s. government that they had wiretaps up on the mother and captured a conversation between tamerlan, the older son, and the mother talking about some kind of jihad. this was the underlying basis
't know about the report to the c.i.a. from the, from the russian fsb. so clearly, you're hearing a lot of frustration from members of congress saying hey, we've spent billions and billions of dollars that that's supposed to promote information sharing and have a central uniform database that people could tap into. what we found is the system apparently is still not working. >> michael i want to open this up to our panel in new york. katrina, i did not realize there was a department of homeland security fusion. i want to read a bit from the top secret america series that the "washington post" ran. and they write analysts who make sense of documents and conversations obtained by foreign and domestic spying share their judgment by publishing 50,000 intelligence reports each year. a volume so large that many are routinely ignored. after things like boston, i think the knee-jerk reaction which it isn't necessarily to say that it's the wrong one, but we talk about building up the security infrastructure. or making it stronger or more comprehensive. 50,000 reports, we have 33 buildings that h
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